Poimandres (Corpus Hermeticum)

[Beshiira]

the "shakti" of manas i.e. kama manas

Well now this is an interesting idea to me; never thought of it like this. But why not – if we follow the ”chain of emanation” with the idea that each step into more defined and detailed creation is also a more defined and detailed manifestation of Shakti, surely kâma manas could be seen as ”shakti of manas”. Perhaps I'd more intuitively put all the seven principles on an equal level with each other ultimately, each one being more or less a similarily unique representation of Shakti itself. But surely this sort of a train of thought can be useful when thinking of the higher and lower triads (linga sharîra & âtma / kâma & buddhi / kâma manas & manas [+ prâna as the "mediator"]). Interesting!

8. But as I was in great astonishment, He saith to me again: Thou didst behold in Mind the Archetypal Form whose being is before beginning without end. Thus spake to me Man-Shepherd.

And I say: Whence then have Nature's elements their being?

To this He answer gives: From Will of God. [Nature] received the Word (Logos), and gazing upon the Cosmos Beautiful did copy it, making herself into a cosmos, by means of her own elements and by the births of souls.

The student has now got some sort of understanding of God behind all forms, and/or the ”Archetypal Form”. We proceed into more detailed stages of creation.

”To this He answer gives: From Will of God.” In the Finnish translation literally: ”From the Will and the Advice of God”. Nature ”making herself into a cosmos”, by ”copying it (the Archetypal Cosmos)” (together with the following parts in the verse), again, corresponds pretty much exactly with Indian metaphysical teaching regarding creation, karma and samskâras (”imprints” from previous worlds, that define the traits of new creation). Also, here we see the ”As above, so below” in action once again. Microcosm replicates the macrocosm, and vice versa.

It could be said that Nature indeed uses ”her own elements” to manifest God, to shine His light, to do His work. (I keep using the word ”God” here for the sake of clarity; we could change it to ”Spirit” or something else of course.) This work also happens ”by the births of souls”, which firstly denotes the occult idea that everything that exists is made of conscious beings (conscious on some level at least). Secondly it implies that all souls are part of the work, no matter what. Numerous other interpretations could be made too, but these stand out to me right now.

Thus also we as human beings are tools in this ”Divine Comedy”; we are also a way for God to manifest Him-/Herself. We leave an imprint in any case; and we can choose either to take part in the process actively and strive upwards, or ”go with the flow” and take the slower route. (Of course it's also possible to try to ”resist the flow”, which then again is basically doomed to fail in practice. Things many times discussed and written about in the SoA context, but there it is once again.)

I also find it striking that the abovementioned process happens when ”Nature receives the Word (Logos)”. Logos can be seen as a ”scheme” of creation and manifestation, that the Creator ”imprints” on Nature, thus enabling creation and emanation to actually happen. All sorts of associations about the holyness of words and speech come to mind; again a very universal idea.

[Smaragd]

"shakti" of manas i.e. kama manas

Well now this is an interesting idea to me; never thought of it like this. But why not – if we follow the ”chain of emanation” with the idea that each step into more defined and detailed creation is also a more defined and detailed manifestation of Shakti, surely kâma manas could be seen as ”shakti of manas”. Perhaps I'd more intuitively put all the seven principles on an equal level with each other ultimately, each one being more or less a similarily unique representation of Shakti itself. But surely this sort of a train of thought can be useful when thinking of the higher and lower triads (linga sharîra & âtma / kâma & buddhi / kâma manas & manas [+ prâna as the "mediator"]). Interesting!

Yes, this point of view can be seen emphasising the vertical axis in the opened up permutation of the Hieroglyphic Key. Dividing the triads in to a higher and a lower is also quite close to the Blavatsky’s Theosophical tabulations of the human constitution in the strictest forms of the status of a principle was saved for buddhi and manas (and the auric envelope if we would follow one of the many Theosophical divisions on these), while atma was not seen in a strict sense as a principle but a ray of the absolute. Thus from this strict point of view the lower four of ours (prana & kama manas, kama rupa, linga sharira), the manasic star of Lucifer, is rather an elemental pentagram than a collection of principles. But this is, again, just one point of view, and in less strict contexts even Blavatsky used the term 'principle' regarding all of the seven principles of human constitution. A even hexagram with a point, a flame or a cross in the middle, on the other hand can be seen a permutation of the principles, of the Hierogylphic Key, perhaps more close to the hearts of Satanists, because it gathers the (elemental) daemons around the same table as possible emphasis points, or rather the gateways to the divine, which could be seen as shaktism in essence.

The falling Star of Lucifer as the elemental pentagram has within the essence of these elements five of the seven sons, which leaves two occulted from view. The five pointed star is thus a symbol of the divine human in it’s current form of the fifth age, where we have developed five senses and capability to perceive five elements of which the visible ”earth”, ”water”, ”air” and ”fire” are only physical symbols of. The remaining two are to a degree withheld for their ages to create their respective touch on the manifested reality to be sensed. According to the idea of emanation-remanation these manifestations could be seen annihilating the manifested world to the bosom of the absolute by reordering life where no detached portions of meaning exist anymore. By perfection the imperfect state of manifestation is annihilated. By any means, this can not be done by force, but the most refined magical operation.

If there are seven ages after which the great night - pralaya - sets in, the fifth can be seen already beyond the middle point (4) and thus the Star of Lucifer as a whole can be seen to have started the annihilation in it's light giving meaning. The fifth shines an unearthly light, where the essential cores of the elements are revealed. Through such a view shaktism looks like a doctrine which creates a bridge from the elementally enchanted ages towards the Luciferian fifth age, as step towards the "annihilating ages". From preparing the elements as tools and our own powers, towards wielding them as a whole towards the strictly defined occult principles, that are only to be physically sensed through their annihilating perfection. A Gnostic idea of Love indeed, to see it as a principle of annihilation.

Thus the difference between a principle and an element is within their metaphysical qualities. The former guards the gates of the essential unity of all, while the latter could perhaps be seen as the essential bodies differentiated to make way to the lower manifestation. The falling sons also carry with themselves the light of their brothers. All the sevenfold cycles within sevenfold cycles are the seven sons reflected within each others on their own turns. The basic division of angels and demons is another point of view that could perhaps be applied here: angels as beings of the essential cores, and demons as the manifested elemental spirits that fall endlessly to the directions they are pushed without a Will of their own, they are the powers as such, passive entities.

All these different points of views to the principles come back to the warnings given relating to tabulations and and formulations of human principles. Those tabulations are only one way of looking at things made for a specific purpose. When looking further in to the secret nature of man and reality, it may become important to look in to where each formulation fits best, and ask oneself why to use one form somewhere and another in some other context. To prevent ideas setting unnecessary in to stone one may figuratively drop the number seven in to a vial of Mercury and to see what kinds of permutations there can be observed.

***

I was about to make this a topic or a text of it's own, but when I opened the Poimandres text itself, I saw we had come to the very same themes on the verse of the latter half of this week. There the "preprinciple" and it's relation to elements is opened up. I take the council of god is the "seven sons" of the Secret Doctrine, who, by receiving the word, i.e. taking council as their whole body of members constituting the whole of Logos, seem to have received a vision of creation, which they start to work towards "through [their] own elements". (EDIT: It is very interesting to go back to the original vision in the text and look at these interpretations and elaborations next to them.) I've been recently peeking a bit in to Tolkien's Silmarillion where the Ainur, 'the Holy Ones', are shown a vision of the world which some of them embark on creating. They are thus bound to this creation for the duration of the manifestation and become Valar, it's powers. Again Shiva-Shakti theme is obviously visible here.

...through its own elements and progeny of souls.

The latter part also notes how everything in existence and pre-existence are operators or agents within a larger body. There is God, there is Logos, there are angelic forces within Logos, we as humans operate within angelic fabric, our reality is made out of it, animals, metals and whatnot can be seen within us - the divine human, etc.

The text does not say 'create' per se, but 'imitate', which has a tone of dread of the demigod. We come back to the Gnostic ideal of seeking the way back home by rising above the mayavic construction and seeking annihilation by perfecting the mastery of these powers - the maya - and thus also the possibility for self-cancelling order of them.

[Beshiira]

I find it somewhat amusing that we both started this project with the idea of ”trying to be light”. Of course a conversation will look like its participants, and no problem there; it's good that the commentaries and associations flow freely. Just what I hoped! I'm not as versed in theosophy, and I find some of this a bit hard to grasp, but I do share the sense that in the end we speak of the same things!

I would still also welcome anyone who's interested in the Poimandres text to share their ideas; no references to theosophy or shaktism or SoA terminology is required, heh!

Onwards!

9. And God-the-Mind, being male and female both, as Light and Life subsisting, brought forth another Mind to give things form, who, God as he was of Fire and Spirit, formed Seven Rulers who enclose the cosmos that the sense perceives. Men call their ruling Fate.

I'll share here the same verse from the Everard translation, since it has interesting points of view:

13. For the Mind being God, Male and Female, Life and Light, brought forth by his Word another Mind or Workman; which being God of the Fire, and the Spirit, fashioned and formed seven other Governors, which in their circles contain the Sensible World, whose Government or disposition is called Fate or Destiny.

Having said what I said in the beginning of this post; well, the connections to the worldview of shaktic metaphysics as well as theosophy and the SoA philosophy are crystal clear.

In shaktic terms we have here the Ardhanârîshvara, a kind of a ”Proto-Shakti” or Shiva-Shakti (both together in one ”god”), and then in the next ”stage” the two are (more) separated. This ”another Mind” naturally also makes me think of Satan, the Great Other so to say. I have strongly likened Shakti to Satan in my thoughts, and sometimes I wonder if such an interpretation is too blunt and bold. Intuitively it feels very right, and I do believe there are quite strong arguments to back it up too. (E.g. I'd say that otherness in a way is also essential to Shakti, as both Shiva and Shakti can really only ”be anything” in relation to each other. Shakti creates by making cracks in the harmony, which is a very satanic phenomenon.)

In this verse again ”Light” and ”Life” are likened, and ”Fire” and ”Spirit” are depicted as their counterparts, in a way. Then this ”Another Mind/Workman” forms the Seven Rulers; and we are right in the middle of the universally holy number Seven.

I guess I'm not unreasonably bold if I say that in the end, instead of ”Fate” we could use the word Karma too.

[Smaragd]

The mind who is god, being androgyne and existing as life and light

As I thought before, the god the father is only an emphasised expression of an androgyne god. This is the light in the vision. Perhaps it could be called the first logos in other divisions of divinities, as the monadic glow of the light seems logoic according to the idea that logos is the monadic idea behind all "atoms". Just so we are on the same page: the idea is that all seen as light, is a field of monads in my mind. But I have to acknowledge that it was my own projection that the world filled with light would be made of numberless amount of monads. Still the projection does not base solely on my own fancy, but is influenced by Theosophical doctrines.

by speaking gave birth to a second mind, a craftsman, who, as god of fire and spirit...

Naturally this might be taken as the second logos. I wonder if Blavatsky, who talked about more than one logos sources the idea to this text, or if multiple logos' is more universal of nature. The fire in the vision is creative proportion of the light. The destructive and transforming qualities of fire differs from the more abstract qualities of light, thus it is a craftsman. Makes me want to go back to Secret Doctrine and compare this general idea to the more specific idea there of a classification of spirits called 'the builders'.

crafted seven governors; they encompass the sensible world in circles

In addition to the monadic idea of circles, the vastly written topic of circles of evolution in Theosophy has an obvious correlation to this part of the verse, to which I already pointed towards in my previous post when talking about the seven ages divided in to seven parts, which in turn are divided in to seven smaller parts ad infinitum. These seven governors are the seven planetary spirits, who govern over the seven ages, one planet having the main emphasis over each of the ages. These ages and the smaller circles within time down to week days and seconds rule over, and create, the visible world. This idea is why we have also in Western magical traditions and astrology planetary hours, and days beginning within a planetary hour of a certain of these "governors". Our Celestial Hymns are also defined and ordered accordingly.

and their government is called fate.

As I wrote above, the divine sequence for the governors of each of the ages goes according to a divine law, and thus there is a predestined course for the spiritual evolution of the world. This is fate, but it also reveals the Archon within the planetary spirit, the Satanic divine power within us human beings are destined to make war against, to overcome the old rule of angels and becoming the new in our ascend over the celestial hierarchies. Such a "war" is about overcoming each of the angels petrified form in culture, taking one's faith in to one's own hand rather than letting one's way to "go with the flow" in to a dreadful pit of cyan hell preserved for the new age prophets.

[Beshiira]

10. Straightway from out the downward elements God's Reason (Logos) leaped up to Nature's pure formation, and was at-oned with the Formative Mind; for it was co-essential with it. And Nature's downward elements were thus left reason-less, so as to be pure matter.

I see an image of a divine light falling down, forming matter, then rising up again and leaving the lowest form of matter (at least seemingly) devoid of any divine spark. Maybe it could be seen as a ”summary” of the Great Work taking place again; via descension and ascension. Makes me think of how the ”lowest” parts of human constitution (or any beings constitution) can be seen as ”shells”, with no substance on their own; be it our crude bodies, or some cruder forms of mental existence. E.g. I can look at my physical body as a ”shell”, but I could also see my lower self as a ”shell ego” in relation to the Ego with a capital letter. From the perspective of the Higher Self, the lower can seem ”reason-less” indeed.

As it is said in many SoA writings, certain demonic beings can also be seen as ”shell creatures”: astral/mental beings that are so deeply tied to matter that they more just follow some instant urges, rather than have a Will of their own.

”Thus left reason-less, so as to be pure matter.” In the Finnish translation (as well as in the Everard translation, actually) it is said: ”only matter”, which can be seen different from ”pure matter”. Only matter would be something devoid of spirit, but pure matter could be seen as something essentially spiritual as well. I guess both interpretations are valid. Then again, if we look at things from a spiritual point of view, what would it be in practice if we had a piece of matter with no spirit in it whatsoever? How could that be, if everything is ultimately Spirit?

I thus feel that this verse's end speaks of the sort of matter that is not directly ”useful” in spiritual work and upward striving, and is thus ”left behind” in a way, to be ”only matter”. This could then be seen also as a symbol of very ego-centered, materialistic, ”vain” life (for the lack of better choices for words).

[Smaragd]

For comparison and keeping the context of the vision at hand, I will quote the part of the vision that I think we are lookin more closely in the current verse:

But from the light . . . a holy word mounted upon the (watery) nature, and untempered fire leapt up from the watery nature to the height above. The fire was nimble and piercing and active as well, and because the air was light it followed after spirit and rose up to the fire away from earth and water so that it seemed suspended from the fire. Earth and and water stayed behind, mixed with one another, so that (earth) could not be distinguished from water, but they were stirred to hear by the spiritual word that moved upon them.

Poimandres continues giving a commentary on the elemental vision the subject of which the disciple asked about:

From the elements [ ] that weight downwards, the word of god leapt straight up to the pure craftwork of nature and united with the craftsman-mind (for the word was of the same substance).

I am not on the firmest of grounds interpreting this, but I think we are discerning between the elements of fire and wind, and defining their qualities further. The word of god is perhaps defined as the spirit and air, while fire is the pure craftwork of nature. We are again at the place where discerning the four elements in to those of purifying, and those of weighting downwards creates the elemental cross. Fire and air forms the vertical pole, while water and earth forms the horizontal pole.

In terms of practical magic, I find the definitions fascinating. For example, beyond the qualities of fire seen as purifying, as in destroying the temporary, the text seems to imply the craftwork (lower creation) of nature is hidden within this fire. How does it work both ways, up and down, if fire is not an element which weights downwards? Perhaps we are nearing the idea of astral light, fire could be seen forms of. Remember that the voice of god came from the light, and having mounted the primordial matter, it discerned from there proper tools (elements) in to their own layers of existence. Thus, I think, the fire taken from the primordial matter could be interpreted as the astral light in to which all forms of creation are imprinted before they can take the forms further in to manifestation by, or to, the downweighting elements.

The united craftsman-mind, fire-air, points also towards the workers of thought, intelligences of air, that are the spirits that ideate the forming of the fiery image, and brushes it against the horizontal elements in the form of a wind. Artists who have visions of the work they are to create, and who are familiar with having to command the spirits of air to work towards some details in the vision that has remained blurry, are to a degree familiar how these things might work in a context of art.

The weighty elements of nature were left behind, bereft of reason, so as to be mere matter.

I think this could be interpreted as these elements being passive in nature. In the earlier vision these elements were stirred by the spirit that moved upon them. This speaks of receptivity as the virtue of water and earth.

[Beshiira]

The weighty elements of nature were left behind, bereft of reason, so as to be mere matter.

I think this could be interpreted as these elements being passive in nature. In the earlier vision these elements were stirred by the spirit that moved upon them. This speaks of receptivity as the virtue of water and earth.

And thus ”strirring” happens again:

11. Then the Formative Mind ([at-oned] with Reason), he who surrounds the spheres and spins them with his whorl, set turning his formations, and let them turn from a beginning boundless unto an endless end. For that the circulation of these [spheres] begins where it doth end, as Mind doth will.

And from the downward elements Nature brought forth lives reason-less; for He did not extend the Reason (Logos) [to them]. The Air brought forth things winged; the Water things that swim, and Earth-and-Water one from another parted, as Mind willed. And from her bosom Earth produced what lives she had, four-footed things and reptiles, beasts wild and tame.

In the first part we have familiar themes from many esoteric teachings again: circulation of aeons, eternal change and cycles with no beginning and no end. The end being the beginning and vice versa shows how limited linear perspective on time is. These are things that I can personally follow intellectually only to a certain extent; if one is to really grasp what cyclical time actually is, I guess some kind of esoteric approach is needed, more or less. I don't know. I guess what I'm trying to say is that this seems like a good example of how logical thinking (or kâma manas in theosophical terms) alone is not enough for a student of occultism.

”Nature brings forth lives reason-less”, but this happens under the command of the Mind. One could say that these lives are not essentially without reason, but the reason (or life, or light, or spirit) is buried deep under the heavy matter. As creation becomes more detailed, Spirit also becomes ”less obvious”.

”Earth-and-Water one from another parted”; I interpret this somehow so that this condition is like paving the way for Spirit to manifest itself in new ways – cf. verse 5, where Earth and Water are at first still ”mingled with each other”. An image comes to mind of a "world mother" opening her legs to give birth.

”He did not extend the Reason (Logos) [to them]”; the creatures depicted in this verse are still in the state of ”reasonlessness”, but this seems like a point where the movement of descension soon turns into the process of ascension.

[Smaragd]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that this seems like a good example of how logical thinking (or kâma manas in theosophical terms) alone is not enough for a student of occultism.

I like this idea. If I reach to the edge of my kama manasic capabilities, the circles being limitless speak of the Aeons as embodiments of their ruling spirit (thus I write 'Aeon' with a capital letter as it is an entity) and because these presumably seven circles form one whole, as if the circles were the heads of one dragon, the cyclical idea is embodied in the interconnected nature of the heads and the sequential order of them as Aeons. In other words each of the Aeon creating spirits have their "brothers" aspect within them. One circle starts a new one and it spirals forth mirroring each other through each other. The separation of water and earth happens when the Aeon of Earth and Water has been completed, for these spirits have their correspondences to the elements.

And from the downward elements Nature brought forth lives reason-less; for He did not extend the Reason (Logos) [to them]. The Air brought forth things winged; the Water things that swim, and Earth-and-Water one from another parted, as Mind willed. And from her bosom Earth produced what lives she had, four-footed things and reptiles, beasts wild and tame.

There's an inherent intelligence to all the elements and these intelligences, the entities the elements consists of, are seen here symbolized by the creatures seen in nature. The bestial nature of these things speak of the passive, spiritless, moral free condition they are born from. Five cycles of these elemental differentiations and syntheses of, and we come to the human pentagram where ethical questions burn as we try bringing these separated elemental, bestial powers under one whole on the elemental cross and in to ascending steps. In this regard it is noteworthy how in the crucifixion theme the legs are often nailed together, as if emphasising it being the symbol of the fourth Aeon where the human pentagram was yet to be formed. Crucifixion is ofcourse full of agony and it follows Jesus descending in to the Harrowing of Hell, before ascension, which could be seen a possibility now during the fifth age where the legs are not bound in to the firm and immobile even number of four, but the more dynamic odd number of five.

[Beshiira]

12. But All-Father Mind, being Life and Light, did bring forth Man co-equal to Himself, with whom He fell in love, as being His own child; for he was beautiful beyond compare, the Image of his Sire. In very truth, God fell in love with his own Form; and on him did bestow all of His own formations.

Again many possible routes for interpretation.

It seems like we are at a point in creation where we have the highest (from where it all started, in a way), and we have the lowest (to where it all led, in a way; the ”reasonless” matter), and now there must be something exactly in the middle. Enter the Human.

Familiar christian themes are there, as ”God created man in His own image”. Christians probably wouldn't agree with Man being ”co-equal” though, unless we speak of Jesus specifically (and even then it could be [as it has been...] debated whether the christian ”Son” and ”Father” are equal or not – cf. Filioque...). Anyway, christian theology famously says that Christ is both ”fully God and fully man”. I remember that this has intuitively felt very right to me pretty much always; it matches how I see Christ. The difference to christian theology is that while ”no man comes to the Father, but by the Son”, an esotericist might add: ”But well, we are all the Son, we are all Christ.” Not ”automatically” for sure, but via our striving and growing. Christ is like the image of the perfect human being, and slowly we can shine that same light through our actions.

Everything with form is created so that the God without forms or limitations can experience reality and act in it as a limited, formal being (or multitudes of beings). I'd say that this is why Man and God (an why not all beings in creation for that matter...) are ultimately ”co-equal”. The special position of Man comes precisely from being in the middle of Spirit and Matter, and this is the power of ”the human pentagram”.

”God fell in love with his own Form”; this could be interpreted in very petty Narcissus-like ways. The demiurge falling in love with his own image etc. Then again, it can be seen in uplifting light too, as if saying: ”The formless is now with form, 'and God saw that it was good'.”

[Smaragd]

Mind, the father of all, who is life and light

The word 'mind' kind of gives this idea or an image of a divine head, which the masculine emphasis supports, but the important reminder that comes after keeps it still as an abstract principle and in the bosom of the other half of the androgyne God.

gave birth to a man like himself whom he loved as his own child. The man was most fair: he had the father's image

And here we have the image fulfilled that sort of wanted to appear already through the word 'mind' as an emphasis towards the masculine in the androgyne, and thus starting the dynamism of creation. I suggest this willingness of the word 'mind' to create the image of the head is the realized love of the father towards his child. They are one within this impulse of creation. While these names of creation can be seen only literary compromises when pointing to the gods, they may also be seen hinting of the creative powers pointed.

and god, who was really in love with his own form, bestowed on him all his craftworks.

As the love between the Father and the Son is within creation, the creative fire is what the Father bestows on his son - the Divine Man whose image is not reflected on the astral waters as the Head, but as the Fivefold Star.

Very much agreeable and harmonious interpretations on this verse with fra Beshiira. Apologies for being a bit late this time.