Runic Visions

Astral and paranormal experiences, dreams and visions.
Kavi
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Re: Runic Visions

Post by Kavi »

Nefastos wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:10 am
Rúnatýr wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:44 pmBut I do understand what you mean: one guy said to me that if one is following Odin it is impossible not to start hailing at some point, and I have also felt this atavistic insurgence in my own work as well; as I see my own rune work being a purification of ancestral energies into the upward path, the atavistic energies naturally arise during the work causing possible sideways.

Yes, this is an interesting question. In the brotherhood we have seen the same challenge rising its head repeatedly: A member is first interested, in a healthy and beautiful way, of his own North-European (Teutonic, Scandinavian, Finnish) culture. But when he starts delving & focusing into it, he starts to feel more and more of its shadow side. It is like the "national dêvas" – to use the bit clumsy expression of Ervast & Bailey – of these lands are in our post World War times in an extremely tense state of agitation and utmost defence, ready to strike all that seems like a danger to their deep-rooted cultural being. Everything alien becomes to seen as hostile, and deeper into the fathers' land spiritual soil one goes, immersing more and more into one cultural heritage, the more he subconsciously seems to see only the bad things in our new time, which is irreversibly multicultural. Fighting against this is to start fighting wars again, for the world will not change back to what it was, not even close.

This is, by the way, one of the reasons why in the model of the eight paths, I placed the dêva path as the right sideways path: it gets stuck into subconscious agencies which still see hostility & need to defend against differences, thus sliding into compromises with the use of forcing & even violence. I think this is partly because the "national dêva" is a gestalt being, holding in it also the base national needs of our "ancestral energies", like you said. And after the World Wars, some recent ancestral energies – of the astral soil – are filled with heroic but bloody will to kill the alien invasion to our beautiful national spirituality.

This problem will dilute in time, of course, but right now it is good to notice. There are spirits both good & bad in everything we do, and they bring to our work their karma of past wishes.
Yet, what is equally as true is, that people who get interested in other cultures: Yogic practices and so on.. they suddenly might start to feel oddly shallow feeling about their own heritage and need for it and so they return to study their own European heritage and sometimes overtly emphasize it compared to others. Which is in my opinion quite not the way I'd or Ervast according to his writings/lectures would like to respect North European heritage. I am not sure if it's egg or chicken thing or not...?


I can certainly sense the feeling in this "shallowness" and hatred against something.
But I have felt our national mythology somewhat boring or maybe it's reinvented formally into something I can't relate to. Maybe this is why also Finns might study more Odin and Scandinavian mythology? Or are they comparable/compatible and equally similar to each other in some sense?
One day I thought that everything in the past might have been built from wood so each building, temple and so on will eventually rot or burn in fire. There is no "Kingdom of Kainuu and Kings of Suomi" to be found. Yet I feel this kind of creative force which gave rise for William Blake's poetry and his visions and maybe this subjective way is the only way to look at modern Finland - equally as the so called past. Maybe "national deva" is found from this. Maybe this kind of thing could be interpreted and re-interpreted akin to Holy England and Jerusalem as Blake might have seen his world(s) in divine visions?
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Nefastos
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Re: Runic Visions

Post by Nefastos »

Kavi wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pmWhich is in my opinion quite not the way I'd or Ervast according to his writings/lectures would like to respect North European heritage.

Yet we must remember that Ervast wrote before the World Wars I mentioned. The whole Finnish, & European, culture was more optimistic, open, and cosmopolitan, as we can see from the texts of both Ervast and his contemporary authors. The War made us cultural pessimists.

Kavi wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pmYet, what is equally as true is, that people who get interested in other cultures: Yogic practices and so on.. they suddenly might start to feel oddly shallow feeling about their own heritage and need for it and so they return to study their own European heritage and sometimes overtly emphasize it compared to others.

Is that so? I have not noticed such, but you might be right. If so, the reason might be our time's (astral) inclination towards seeking differences in an easily irritated way. Which, in turn, is easily tracked to the quick changes in the modern culture. Things move towards unity – in good and bad – quicker than the collective psyche can easily handle. As a reaction, we grasp intensely our self-identifying material, whatever it is, for it seems like a lifeboat in the constant astral storm.

Kavi wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pmBut I have felt our national mythology somewhat boring or maybe it's reinvented formally into something I can't relate to. Maybe this is why also Finns might study more Odin and Scandinavian mythology? Or are they comparable/compatible and equally similar to each other in some sense?

Here we could open an interesting new discussion: Is it possible, or desirable, to open oneself to cultural systems that at first seem "somewhat boring"? In brief, I'd say that this needs some skill, but is a very important part of occult study: to see which building blocks to use personally at any given time, and to respect others. Yet every esoteric toolkit comes with its karmic extra, and e.g. I have had a tremendous work to do with SoA's implementation of the Christian & Theosophical toolkits (which comprise only parts of those doctrines' esoteric views at large). The work of purification of the instruments of the work is intimately linked to the work itself.

Kavi wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pmOne day I thought that everything in the past might have been built from wood so each building, temple and so on will eventually rot or burn in fire. There is no "Kingdom of Kainuu and Kings of Suomi" to be found.

So you don't believe in (Ior Bock's) Temple of Lemminkäinen?? ;)
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
Angolmois

Re: Runic Visions

Post by Angolmois »

Nefastos wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:10 am Everything alien becomes to seen as hostile, and deeper into the fathers' land spiritual soil one goes, immersing more and more into one cultural heritage, the more he subconsciously seems to see only the bad things in our new time, which is irreversibly multicultural.
Just as a sidenote, I bet there were multitudes 200 years ago in the era of the dissolution of the Roman Empire, who believed that the world is "irreversibly multicultural". Yet, Christianity rose to prominence and Christendom unified the western world - for good or for worse, depending on the point of view. What the next monolithic traditional form will be and will there be such a monolithic systems at all in the coming age, I don't know - and I don't know will it be a global phenomenon, this time under a different guise - but I do suspect that is what we'll be seeing in the coming era. Perchance the "System of the Antichrist" will take the form of Satanism/Luciferianism, where individualism joins a collective cultural context somehow, again for good and for worse? Nowadays traditionalists are largely clinging on to the old forms that will eventually dissolve, perhaps after a point of crystallization and rigidity. Will the next form of Tradition be a synthesis of all past traditions, that remains to be seen. But it is only the hubris of modern man that induces him to think that the current civilization that is in its death-throes and in the point of dissolving altogether, will enjoy a different fate than past empires and civilizations. A new form will rise, that I'm pretty sure of. A "religion of humanity" perchance.
Angolmois

Re: Runic Visions

Post by Angolmois »

*2000 years ago I meant of course.
Kavi
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Re: Runic Visions

Post by Kavi »

Nefastos wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:07 am
Kavi wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pmWhich is in my opinion quite not the way I'd or Ervast according to his writings/lectures would like to respect North European heritage.
Yet we must remember that Ervast wrote before the World Wars I mentioned. The whole Finnish, & European, culture was more optimistic, open, and cosmopolitan, as we can see from the texts of both Ervast and his contemporary authors. The War made us cultural pessimists.

This is generally true I think, but if I recall it right at least "Uudestisyntyvä Suomi" is published after the "Great War". Ervast speaks about Finnish characteristics there that Finn does not boast with his heritage or nationality and how they are great as German or Brit might do in his opinion. At least I have had feeling that he never lost his belief in humankind and if something I have promised to myself, it's the promise to not stop struggling with it.
Nefastos wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:07 am
Kavi wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pmYet, what is equally as true is, that people who get interested in other cultures: Yogic practices and so on.. they suddenly might start to feel oddly shallow feeling about their own heritage and need for it and so they return to study their own European heritage and sometimes overtly emphasize it compared to others.
Is that so? I have not noticed such, but you might be right. If so, the reason might be our time's (astral) inclination towards seeking differences in an easily irritated way. Which, in turn, is easily tracked to the quick changes in the modern culture. Things move towards unity – in good and bad – quicker than the collective psyche can easily handle. As a reaction, we grasp intensely our self-identifying material, whatever it is, for it seems like a lifeboat in the constant astral storm.
It might be just my own perception and I can find this kind of feeling sometimes inside of me too. Maybe partially from desperation as you said that there are rapid changes and sense of longing for something, to be self-identifying with.
Nefastos wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:07 am
Kavi wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pmBut I have felt our national mythology somewhat boring or maybe it's reinvented formally into something I can't relate to. Maybe this is why also Finns might study more Odin and Scandinavian mythology? Or are they comparable/compatible and equally similar to each other in some sense?
Here we could open an interesting new discussion: Is it possible, or desirable, to open oneself to cultural systems that at first seem "somewhat boring"? In brief, I'd say that this needs some skill, but is a very important part of occult study: to see which building blocks to use personally at any given time, and to respect others. Yet every esoteric toolkit comes with its karmic extra, and e.g. I have had a tremendous work to do with SoA's implementation of the Christian & Theosophical toolkits (which comprise only parts of those doctrines' esoteric views at large). The work of purification of the instruments of the work is intimately linked to the work itself.
This is good to keep in mind!
Nefastos wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:07 am
Kavi wrote: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:43 pmOne day I thought that everything in the past might have been built from wood so each building, temple and so on will eventually rot or burn in fire. There is no "Kingdom of Kainuu and Kings of Suomi" to be found.
So you don't believe in (Ior Bock's) Temple of Lemminkäinen?? ;)
Hahah in my mind's eye it's very marvelous place!
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Runic Visions

Post by Polyhymnia »

Nefastos wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:07 am

Is that so? I have not noticed such, but you might be right. If so, the reason might be our time's (astral) inclination towards seeking differences in an easily irritated way. Which, in turn, is easily tracked to the quick changes in the modern culture. Things move towards unity – in good and bad – quicker than the collective psyche can easily handle. As a reaction, we grasp intensely our self-identifying material, whatever it is, for it seems like a lifeboat in the constant astral storm.
Maybe being of mixed race has been good for me in this sense, then. I've never really felt as though I fit in anywhere nationally, so I don't have any kind of nationalistic self-identifiers to grasp onto. I definitely have felt the burn of people who also don't think I belong within their national identity though. It's a super weird feeling being disliked by supremacists, specifically because I lack those self-identifiers.

I'm super curious about the dangers of the astral when it comes to things like visions. As some of you know, I get quite a few visions. Nothing that I would describe as premonition or psychic ability or anything like that. They're usually just images, often heavy in symbolism, that sometimes happen extended periods of time before they start to make sense in a physical sense. I've never felt as though they were something to be feared, as I'm often left with a joyous feeling overflowing with love. There have been times when I've felt uneasy during moments like these, but all of those times were during spiritual interactions with one specific individual who makes a point of communicating with entities in what I feel is a very reckless manner. How do I know if what I'm experiencing is as holy as it feels? How do I know if there's danger?
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
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Nefastos
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Re: Runic Visions

Post by Nefastos »

Rúnatýr wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 4:36 pmJust as a sidenote, I bet there were multitudes 2000 years ago in the era of the dissolution of the Roman Empire, who believed that the world is "irreversibly multicultural".

Yes, exactly. The splendid cultural peak of Roman empire is a very good example to keep in mind when thinking about these things. It was the time that held the same challenges as ours (under a different sign, naturally), and yet we see that it gave birth to the whole epoch of culture, art, literacy, and religion. It had its problems in their execution just like our time does, but from that example in the past we see that the challenge in the "new, challenging unity" has an incredible potential.

Kavi wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:02 amAt least I have had feeling that he never lost his belief in humankind and if something I have promised to myself, it's the promise to not stop struggling with it.

That sounds like the best course of action, without doubt; and you are right, Ervast was an exemplar of that attitude his whole life. I must admit I am not as convinced myself, but that is my personal shortcoming, and what I lack in my trust to humanity, I make up in my stubborn conviction that one has to do his idealistic best no matter what the actual outcome. For even if the outer attempts for help might partially fail because of human beings' inability to even strive for better – or for some other reason –, the inner struggles for ascension will persist.

Kavi wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:02 am
Nefastos wrote: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:07 amSo you don't believe in (Ior Bock's) Temple of Lemminkäinen?? ;)

Hahah in my mind's eye it's very marvelous place!

Hopefully we can visit that astral beauty in some Wolandisque trip eventually! Also, we may recall that plans had already been drawn for Kalevala temple before war. What has not been accomplished in the physical world yet, will be accomplished eventually.

Polyhymnia wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:11 amI'm super curious about the dangers of the astral when it comes to things like visions. As some of you know, I get quite a few visions. Nothing that I would describe as premonition or psychic ability or anything like that. They're usually just images, often heavy in symbolism, that sometimes happen extended periods of time before they start to make sense in a physical sense. I've never felt as though they were something to be feared, as I'm often left with a joyous feeling overflowing with love. There have been times when I've felt uneasy during moments like these, but all of those times were during spiritual interactions with one specific individual who makes a point of communicating with entities in what I feel is a very reckless manner. How do I know if what I'm experiencing is as holy as it feels? How do I know if there's danger?

That's precisely how the things should happen, in the healthiest possible way. When there is just easy-flowing elation connected to the visions, no ardent wish to grasp them, no fanatical idea that they must represent reality in some exact way, no wish to enter wholly to that world of visions, but to keep one's other foot steadily on physical ground (which means not sensations but reason, vivêka of kâma manas that is merciless towards one's subjective processes) – in that case the astral visions can be a true blessing in the process. Like dreams that indeed hold truth, but in their way, and give rest to our more materialistic part of mind. The danger comes not from visions themselves but from how we react to them, and your reaction sounds to be just right.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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Polyhymnia
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Re: Runic Visions

Post by Polyhymnia »

This brings me great relief. I didn’t think much about it before, but it’s been heavily on my mind since the start of this topic.
"Limited love asks for possession of the beloved, but the unlimited asks only for itself." -Kahlil Gibran
Angolmois

Re: Runic Visions

Post by Angolmois »

Nefastos wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:33 pm Second, I had drawn as his sign the Gibor rune. To this day I still have never studied what the Gibor rune means, but I remember the astonishment I felt the first time when I realized it was an actual rune; I think it was when seeing Ulver's William Blake cover art.
Was the rune you draw an X or the more latest Gibor rune by the german esotericists of the 20th century?

What came to my mind that we only need to draw horizontal lines to the X rune and we have roughly the image you shared with us in Argarizim which can also be translated and interpreted as the Man forming himself as the upwards traingle Mountain that reaches the downwards emanating essence of the Heaven and Gods, the Gebo / Gibor being the unification of Heaven and Earth, and the celestial and cthonic Gods and Goddesses, with Man as the Mediator and the Sun/Son/Consciousness in the Cross of Matter.
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Nefastos
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Re: Runic Visions

Post by Nefastos »

Rúnatýr wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:23 pm
Nefastos wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:33 pmSecond, I had drawn as his sign the Gibor rune. To this day I still have never studied what the Gibor rune means, but I remember the astonishment I felt the first time when I realized it was an actual rune; I think it was when seeing Ulver's William Blake cover art.


Was the rune you draw an X or the more latest Gibor rune by the german esotericists of the 20th century?

Not X but this stranger shape, so it must be the one constructed by the modern esotericists like you said. Since runes have not held special interest for myself, I have never checked its meanings: to know the name of the rune for this discussion, I had to google "N-shaped rune".

Rúnatýr wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:23 pmWhat came to my mind that we only need to draw horizontal lines to the X rune and we have roughly the image you shared with us in Argarizim

"The Chalice of Mount Argarizim", yes; but in that case we must imagine the very important "temple cube" at the middle point where the triangles of the hourglass meet.

Rúnatýr wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:23 pmwhich can also be translated and interpreted as the Man forming himself as the upwards traingle Mountain that reaches the downwards emanating essence of the Heaven and Gods, the Gebo / Gibor being the unification of Heaven and Earth, and the celestial and cthonic Gods and Goddesses, with Man as the Mediator and the Sun/Son/Consciousness in the Cross of Matter.

Sounds good & valid. From the only book of runes I now checked the gebo rune, if it is similar in meaning than the one named gibor of the above mentioned google search. At least this gebo's meaning would fit well to that proto-dharmic point of my juvenile astralism with past tendencies (gift; unification). What's their connection & difference?
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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