Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

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Angolmois

Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Angolmois »

So here goes. What value and potential do you see in black metal as an occult artform?
obnoxion
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Re: Black metal and the occult

Post by obnoxion »

Could we expand this topic to include all rock and pop music with occult themes, including blues, jazz and folk music, etc..?
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
Angolmois

Re: Black metal and the occult

Post by Angolmois »

Since you proposed the topic I was kind of hoping this would be only about bm, but: do as thou wilt.
Kavi
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Re: Black metal and the occult

Post by Kavi »

obnoxion wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:16 am Could we expand this topic to include all rock and pop music with occult themes, including blues, jazz and folk music, etc..?
There is a lot of emphasis on race and politics in jazz music which are essential of course but usually extra musical features like religion and beliefs are sometimes not discussed as much although they standout even in classic recordings. What I didn't know was that Islam played minor role in jazz music too, mainly through Ahmadiyya sect.
There is lots of analysis on John Coltrane's music. I would think him lightheartedly said as a somekind of jazz theosophist as he infused ideas from Christianity and Eastern traditions into his music as well as studied a bit of hindustani raga. ..exactly I started to think now: is there connection between Theosophy and jazz?

Also form in musical improvisation and composition is interesting. In bebop music A-B-A is common form and it feels like somekind of ritual to me which you open with theme melody and after representing yourself (solo) you close it with same theme.

How does this kind of thinking resonate with black metal? If we approach it as a tool instead of merely as a scene I see lot of positive aspects in it. Also ideas, that are thought to be extra musical, namely Satan has become center of the music act itself. Although I don't know if this reflects the reality in most of the bands.
Although there is characteristics and distinct feeling in bm I think black metal is at the same time most vague sub-genres and this flexibility and freedom can give the musician many possibilities which other musics might not be able to provide.
Maybe at the same time this freedom becomes a burden.
obnoxion
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Re: Black metal and the occult

Post by obnoxion »

Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:45 am Since you proposed the topic I was kind of hoping this would be only about bm, but: do as thou wilt.
I proposed the topic rather for "occult rock music in general", but if there is a need for a topic exclusively for black metal, I suppose there is nothing wrong with that.

It is just that most likely this topic will soon branch (at least) into doom, death, heavy, ambient, neofolk and industrial metal. And, also, I feel that many of the extravaganzes of black metal that the fans are drawn to and others find disturbing or ridiculous, could be considered with more serious interest in a larger context.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
Angolmois

Re: occultism and music

Post by Angolmois »

obnoxion wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:29 pm
Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:45 am Since you proposed the topic I was kind of hoping this would be only about bm, but: do as thou wilt.
I proposed the topic rather for "occult rock music in general", but if there is a need for a topic exclusively for black metal, I suppose there is nothing wrong with that.

It is just that most likely this topic will soon branch (at least) into doom, death, heavy, ambient, neofolk and industrial metal. And, also, I feel that many of the extravaganzes of black metal that the fans are drawn to and others find disturbing or ridiculous, could be considered with more serious interest in a larger context.
That's True. Lets widen the viewpoint by all means!
obnoxion
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Re: Black metal and the occult

Post by obnoxion »

Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:42 pm
obnoxion wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:29 pm
Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:45 am Since you proposed the topic I was kind of hoping this would be only about bm, but: do as thou wilt.
I proposed the topic rather for "occult rock music in general", but if there is a need for a topic exclusively for black metal, I suppose there is nothing wrong with that.

It is just that most likely this topic will soon branch (at least) into doom, death, heavy, ambient, neofolk and industrial metal. And, also, I feel that many of the extravaganzes of black metal that the fans are drawn to and others find disturbing or ridiculous, could be considered with more serious interest in a larger context.
That's True. Lets widen the viewpoint by all means!
Thank you!

I was hoping there were some expertice on jazz music here, and now it seems fra Kavi knows about the topic. I remember Kenneth Grant wrote (I think it was in "Nightside of Eden") that William "Count" Basie's "jump rythms" opened a channel to the dark side of the Tree of Life. I would be very interested if someone could enlighten me on the speciality of Count Basie's musical genius.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
Kavi
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Re: Black metal and the occult

Post by Kavi »

obnoxion wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:54 pm
Boreas wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:42 pm
obnoxion wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:29 pm

I proposed the topic rather for "occult rock music in general", but if there is a need for a topic exclusively for black metal, I suppose there is nothing wrong with that.

It is just that most likely this topic will soon branch (at least) into doom, death, heavy, ambient, neofolk and industrial metal. And, also, I feel that many of the extravaganzes of black metal that the fans are drawn to and others find disturbing or ridiculous, could be considered with more serious interest in a larger context.
That's True. Lets widen the viewpoint by all means!
Thank you!

I was hoping there were some expertice on jazz music here, and now it seems fra Kavi knows about the topic. I remember Kenneth Grant wrote (I think it was in "Nightside of Eden") that William "Count" Basie's "jump rythms" opened a channel to the dark side of the Tree of Life. I would be very interested if someone could enlighten me on the speciality of Count Basie's musical genius.
I can't unfortunately analyze his music and I know too little about his big band arrangements but if "jump rhythm" refers to jump blues which was at one point popular form of music. Then maybe it is associated with voodoo and the rhythm of crossroads leads to this dark side?
Although I think maybe jump isn't necessarily associated with voodoo(?).
obnoxion
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Re: Black metal and the occult

Post by obnoxion »

Kavi wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 1:25 pm I can't unfortunately analyze his music and I know too little about his big band arrangements but if "jump rhythm" refers to jump blues which was at one point popular form of music. Then maybe it is associated with voodoo and the rhythm of crossroads leads to this dark side?
Although I think maybe jump isn't necessarily associated with voodoo(?).
That sounds very interesting, and gives me something to go on. I just listened to Count Basie's "Jumping by the Woodside", and it certainly sounded like something that Leland Palmer would enjoy dancing to...
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Nefastos
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Re: Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

Post by Nefastos »

I changed the name of the thread to widen the discussion as suggested & agreed on.
Kavi wrote: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:17 pm...Satan has become center of the music...

While I might have more to say about Satanism in music & in black metal in particular (even though I am not familiar of the scene anymore I've still written lyrics for some BM bands) I'm tempted to present just an anecdote about this "Satan in music". Namely, I was reading your post while listening to Max Don't Have Sex With Your Ex, while earlier I listened to Haydn's Seven Last Word of Christ on the Cross; I think both hold some aspects on Satan in music. The latter one was related to my Great Fast practice this week. Come to think of it, classic music has always been in quite an important role in my different Right Hand Path / Rosicrucian practices. After having an intense experience of Christus Mysticus some two years ago, I listened to John Debney's Resurrection theme over & over again. Yes... music really is deeply wired to our basic emotional pulse. But personally I need also the lyrics – or, at least, an evocative name for the song – to give depth to the pure rhythm and energy of music.

Which brings us to the classic: For several decades, presentatives of the worried parents everywhere felt obliged to preach against every new kind of music as "Satanic". Are we finally over that? Personally I would love to blame decadent rap music for the youths' problems, of course, but still, such a step might be welcome.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
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