TWIN PEAKS

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Benemal
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by Benemal »

And there's the modern American demon, Bob. There's the dualism of Laura Palmer and her identical cousin. The White Lodge and the bookhouse boys remind me of esoteric christian knights. Many traditions were exported to the new world and can still be seen, sometimes even in tv-shows. David Lynch is from the north, which is more magical and primitive, than rest of USA. Though I don't think entertainment needs to be justified by "deeper meaning".
obnoxion
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by obnoxion »

Benemal wrote:Though I don't think entertainment needs to be justified by "deeper meaning".
I had to lay in bed for almost three months in the spring, and I watched every episode of the Grimm. When it comes to deeper meaning, Grimm is perhaps the flatest thing I've watched on television. But I enjoyed it. I fell in love with the Portland landscapes so much that I could imagine living there. Also, it was visually very colourful. And I cared about the characters, and that always helps to create suspense. But even though it was based on folk tales, which should lend depth to almost anything, the Grimm was consistently shallow.

Twin Peaks, on the other hand, is never shallow. It will sacrifice entertainment before it
will sacrifice depth. It is like a genuine dream in that it must be interpreted, at least a little. But though there clearly seem to be much consistency of symbol and meaning, and I would say that it most definatelly is not surreal (like "Andalusian Dog" is), it does seem that it is supposed to open to multible interpretations.

After Twin Peaks, I've seen some attempts to copy it's atmosphere by being eerie and weird for weird's sake. And that really doesn't work at all. You gotta have a real depth dimension to do a Twin Peaks.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Nefastos
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by Nefastos »

Mostly I have enjoyed the new Twin Peaks immensely. Even though sometimes it seems that the sardonic aspect (Cooper-zombie against the growingly desperate expectations of the viewers; the purposefully clumsy acting for the "cute" female characters...) balances on the ledge of good and bad taste. To this day it has still kept barely - and just because of that, so deliciously - to the first. The same goes with the many explanations, either straight or undirect, for the repeating symbols already familiar from the 1st & 2nd seasons. The line between explanation and banalization is a thin one. Still I think that that has been definitely the best method, for without such commentaries the growing pile of abstract symbolism would have been too much for the viewers. And personally I do not think that tabulations for the mysteries can ever take away any real mystery. Besides, I get some satisfaction from seeing that I had interpreted the symbols as they were meant.

I am also glad that the depiction of downward path dugpas has been chosen to be as it is, instead of picturing the denizens of the black lodge as some noble black wizards with capes and marble wisdom, who just happen to cause violence, rape and murder as a product of their occult path.

The latest episode (number 11 was it?) was my favourite. I enjoy few things more than gracefully depicted magical disappearance into another realm.
Faust: "Lo contempla. / Ei muove in tortuosa spire / e s'avvicina lento alla nostra volta. / Oh! se non erro, / orme di foco imprime al suol!"
obnoxion
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by obnoxion »

Nefastos wrote: the purposefully clumsy acting for the "cute" female characters...
The females have been, I think, generally more versatile in The Return, than in the original Twin Peaks, although the the gender roles go with the 50's feeling that has been aesthetically so central to Twin Peaks. Also, the ultimate source of evil seems to be female - The Mother. In the original Twin Peaks the supernatural beings tended to be all male. I am specially excited about The Mother. In a way, it updates the terrifying nature of the matrka. The whole physique of The Mother seems as if inspired by some Paleolithic Venus... Perhaps the white statue of the Venus de Medici in the Black Lodge has actually been the presence of The Mother.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
obnoxion
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by obnoxion »

SPOILERS! Finally, in the 15/18 episode, agent Cooper is back! And he has filled all possible hopes, even the most immature ones, that the despairing viewer might have placed in him: he is a santa claus ("I know you have hearts of gold"), an action hero ("I am the FBI"), a good father ("I am you father"), and, a Messiah, with a seemingly perfect vision of his mission - he is even a unifier of two hands, a champion of the two lodges.

All the cues are there that make one expect that the series will end with the simple Hollywood arch of drama, where the action hero will reign supreme, and everyone will get what's coming. I wonder if I will be dissapointed if the series ends again with Cooper laughing alone like a mad man with a bloody face...
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
obnoxion
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by obnoxion »

Make that the episode 16/18...
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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Smaragd
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by Smaragd »

I really liked how this season drew lines between the physical and abstract realms through psychic, mostly demonic, ”interferences” in the electricity/emanation/Prana. Difference between Prana and Shakti are a bit unclear to me, but I know the latter is associated as a feminine power. In episode 11, there was the vortex in the sky which ended up in total blackness until demonic visions covered it. Now in theosophic texts the feminine in it's passive, abstract state is the emptiness/total darkness that bears the world as her child, thus Shakti might be more fitting term. The vortex with it's demonic saturation also appeared in the surrounding neighbourhood in the form of the minions of a violent organization circling the block where Dougie, owing money to the crooks, had left his car.

Judy is told to be an entity of extreme negative force which takes me back to the feminine passive force and the negativity — the pain we go through clearing way towards truth. In the end Cooper goes to meet Judy and ends up facing the world in it's banality where physical sex has lost it's excitement and names and masks don't mean nothing. It is the eternal loop — workshop of the fallen, where Judy lives. Now Shaktiman Cooper can be named a champion of the black lodge.
"Would to God that all the Lord's people were Prophets”, Numbers 11:29 as echoed by William Blake
Kenazis
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by Kenazis »

POSSIBLE SPOILER-ALERT! Would the ending of this be somekind of Lynchian black humour. First Twin Peaks ended in Cooper being wrong place and many was annoyed by that. That wasn't good way to end the series. Now it seems that Cooper is on exactly right place with right person, but in wrong time. HAhahahahaa.....Lynch is laughing with his deathbag.
"We live for the woods and the moon and the night"
Yinlong
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by Yinlong »

Ugh, just finished recently all the episodes. I think this is a classic (or will be, time will tell) - a kind of master piece, where many praising words are fitting. Though, at the same time I kind of agree that sometimes Lynch's sarcasm was excessive, but I as a viewer allow it anyways. He's also old already.

Many layers, I guess many interpretations that probably still develop on my mind and everybody else's who has gone through the series. Somehow currently I find myself thinking Hawk as a character. Of course the series forces the viewer to somehow to think the clash of the native people of Twin Peaks area, their legacies and mysteries and then the "invaders" Anglo-Saxon (pretty dominantly still in this new season) trying to make sense on where they have dwelled. Well, of course there are forces that are external and affect everybody, which is kind of the point I guess. Anyways, I still keep thinking how Hawk behaves. Kind of feminine way, he listens to the phone calls of Log Lady, visits town's people, basically stays on the background no matter how extraordinary are the happenings. In my view, he is at the same time guardian like but also - I think - represents more widely the "old way" - shamanistic or animistic - take on mystical or supernatural. He doesn't seem to even want to put everything to words, but definitely doesn't conquer. I guess the reason why this resonates on my mind is that I have often find violent or aggressive the Judeo-Christian conquering of the subconcious (and superconcious - if you will). I mean, does St. George need to kill the dragon - or the boy the witch etc. Is more harmonic approach already "outdated" somehow?

In any case, if somebody is interested in Hawk (or just studied the characters), it would be nice to hear your takes on him.
Quaerendo Invenietis - Na dìomhcuimhnich a-chaoidh - Feuer frei!
obnoxion
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Re: TWIN PEAKS

Post by obnoxion »

Kenazis wrote:POSSIBLE SPOILER-ALERT! Would the ending of this be somekind of Lynchian black humour. First Twin Peaks ended in Cooper being wrong place and many was annoyed by that. That wasn't good way to end the series. Now it seems that Cooper is on exactly right place with right person, but in wrong time. HAhahahahaa.....Lynch is laughing with his deathbag.
I thought that the heroic awakening of Cooper was too comic to be true, though one would assume that going through the Black lodge without fear and with perfect compasson could make Cooper a perfected being. But I think the ending gave us a vision of the world as the Place of endless repetition. This reminds me for one thing of James Hillman's book "Dreams and the Underworld", where he makes a point how psyche herself is fundamentally a state/Place of repetition, represented by the the Underworld and the Bident, which serves as the Staff of Hades. Such states of depth psychological repetition are illustrated by the many infernal states of Dante's ´Hell, and the remorseless repetitive patterns pertaining to the state of psychopathy. So I would suggest that what Cooper realized is that in the world of forms, it is all just endless repetition. The formal existence is a horrible joke.

I am still thinking about the ambivalence of the Cooper character. In the film FWWM, there is an art deco Saturn Clock on the table, but it is missing after Cooper arrives. Then there is the car clock of the Doppleganger Cooper, which looks like a two-dimensional Saturn with ring. (My interpretation is that at least some of the objects in the Black Lodge are beings, for example, Venus de Medici is the Mother/Judy). And when one thinks about how agent jeffries accused the "real" Cooper of being the Doppelgänger, right after Cooper stopped showing in the security camera footage... well, the two Coopers never where a dualistic pair, were they? They are two points of the Bident. Or perhaps it is a Trident, and the central point is concealed in the eternal now between the laughs and the creeps.
One day of Brahma has 14 Indras; his life has 54 000 Indras. One day of Vishnu is the lifetime of Brahma. The lifetime of Vishnu is one day of Shiva.
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