Occult Themes in Different Music Genres

[Cerastes]

One good example of how different we (people) are. This kind of listening is awful for my ears/mind. If I listen aggressive black metal there is some "mental demand" for that kind of material and it is not working for me if I abrutly change it to something complete different. I have different "mood-periods" where I listen some genre long and then move on another. Also I often want to listen albums as whole and always liked albums that where composed as one entity and not just collection of separate tracks.

I generally don't like it when things stay the same for a longer period of time. These abrupt changes and contrasts make me much calmer and more focused. A contrast brings out the different nuances of a song much better and somehow intensifies them and has a vivifying efffect. It's like jumping in the snow when you come out of a sauna. (A very finn-compatible analogy) I’m aware that my way of listening to music drives other people mad (I’ve been told very often). Unfortunately, most people can only accept my playlist when they are drunk. Not sure what this says about me.

By the way, Deicide's "Once Upon A Cross" was one of the biggest death metal albums for me, along with Cannibal Corpse's "Tomb of the Mutilated". I listened to them when I was like thirteen and translated all the lyrics with dictionary. I had a pretty special English vocabulary for my age back then

I bet you did! Nothing makes you more eloquent than Cannibal Corpse lyrics. I learned English from South Park and Slayer.

[Nefastos]

I think technicality and musicality can't be really a separate from each other. (...)

Yes, I think we are talking about the same thing. Listening to Jesus' Tod it's obvious the song is very melodic and well played, but there is this mythological stone sculpture kind of firm nature to the melodies and the arrangement that works in a very different way than the usual "melodic metal" genre songs.

I put a little wall of text here, so it is easy to skip if uninterested. This is personal pondering on personal things, although I come back to surface in the end:

Like people reading about my random posts in different threads already know, my tastes and understanding in mustic are often weird and disturbing, and most likely be offensive to many who either make or listen to music in earnest. Yet I listen to music all the time (at the moment it's Tubular Bells & Sentinel by Mike Oldfield on repeat), and it would demand quite a yoga practice to just give up music as a rhythm of life and working. I take that it helps me a lot to be able just to use it without any kind of actual & active intellectual process. It made me think the blessed poor in spirit, and perhaps helped me to understand more about what is meant by that. When I listen to music, I do not listen to music – I mean, how it is played, &c. – but instead the overall feeling of the idea of it. The aura of music, how the idea in the music piece collects and channels my energy. I don't hear notes, I hear feelings. Often if someone makes a comment about an instrument used, I am at loss, because I didn't think about the instruments, I just felt the sound without any association to players, instruments, &c. I think this makes me as a little child in music. But the interesting thing is that I actually should not be a complete dullard in a musical sense. I went to music institute for children for quite a long time (nine years), so I learned the basics of playing, music theory, &c. My school grades in music were never below Excellent. I've always loved singing, and was asked to perform in public earlier. This made me think about choices one makes to focus. And that, in turn, brought me back to this:

In my personal opinion most bands and musicians loose their original impetus and spirit when they learn to play better; not always but in general.

The truth behind this might be in the problem of focusing? In music as well as in other things, starting doing this opens in us certain fire of creation. The first step, when it has actually been taken, is often quite enjoyable, because we can reach these new things, and express ourselves better in some way. The direction is clear: we must do everything in our practice, because we don't know anything about it. The next step, and many steps after it, are usually not so glorious: it is quite easy to learn the very basics in anything, but going beyond that starts to demand much more time and energy. That energy, that focus, is taken from somewhere else. Our time is so filled with information that anyone who is willing to be more than a dilettante in something feels that he must become a specialist expert, and focuses solely on one or two things. And because the fire ("original impetus and spirit") is so little emphasized in our culture – it doesn't even have a terminology of its own, but is something akin to unicorns and weirdo occultists – it is some much natural to focus and superfocus upon the technical side.

This is one reason I think we should cultivate also the child within; to keep in touch to that part of ourselves that is playful and in a good way ignorant (and therefore blessed).

When I was re-visiting my old favourite BM albums on youtube, the songs would abruptly change to commercials for frozen pizzas and things like that. Which was mildly disruptive...

I find it hilarious how the commerciality in our time runs amok almost as in desperate attempt to tear itself apart. You might get a glimpse of the actual YouTube video in case you remember to hit the button to escape the third advertisement, but will still see the advertise bar, and the longer or more popular videos are have advertisement breaks, and of course there is much advertisement going around the video clip window. It's like witnessing a conquistador act on someone's own market. ...Digressing again...

[Kavi]

I think technicality and musicality can't be really a separate from each other. (...)

Yes, I think we are talking about the same thing. Listening to Jesus' Tod it's obvious the song is very melodic and well played, but there is this mythological stone sculpture kind of firm nature to the melodies and the arrangement that works in a very different way than the usual "melodic metal" genre songs.

I put a little wall of text here, so it is easy to skip if uninterested. This is personal pondering on personal things, although I come back to surface in the end:

Like people reading about my random posts in different threads already know, my tastes and understanding in mustic are often weird and disturbing(...)

I should've answered to other posts as well but it's hard to copy/paste every post... I felt exactly same about Autopsy's Mental Funeral album like Kenazis and this helped me to remember the drunken idea I got during half-annual meeting. I realized how different kind of music people listen to and probably also how differently people listen to it and I was in awe and thinking out loudly that there could be some kind of cell studying music in various ways.I have tried passively during years to read and understand different books or texts about music and esotericism but some are impenetrably theoretical that they lose the ground to practice or human experience.
This also brought me memory of this "aura in music" which Nefastos presents in his post and I can find similarities in my listening experience too.. But during time I have become more analytical and I have almost lost this ability which is also connected with other aspects like creativity and maybe even more.

I once had this "commercials and music-idea" that in a album songs would be ruined by doing own made-up commercials between songs or within songs. Maybe next-level of this idea would be some kind of Advertisement Avitchi where whole album is a computer program full of "skippable" and "un-skippable" commercials and then once song or video would start pop-up ads were to happen.

[Polyhymnia]

In my personal opinion most bands and musicians loose their original impetus and spirit when they learn to play better; not always but in general.

Agreed. Even in my band, our emphasis is not on practice or "tightening up". We've been together for five years, and we've always made connection the highest priority. Sometimes when we are together we just sit and hold hands and feel one another, or sometimes we hold hands and meditate together. Our music always emanates from within this union of our energies, and we find this to be the whole of our work together. We did once try to improve our techniques with lots of practice, but that was a disaster. Everything was off.

[Polyhymnia]

There is so much music I enjoy that has heavy occult leanings. One album I discovered when I was around 16 was Only Theatre of Pain by Christian Death. The whole thing sounded like a prayer to me, even though I was a very confused and angry atheist at the time. I always felt more than the lyrics sometimes let on, thanks to the tone of Rozz Williams' anguished vocals.
Rozz era CD will always have a soft spot on my heart.
I still consider PIG to be one of my largest art influences.

[obnoxion]

There is so much music I enjoy that has heavy occult leanings. One album I discovered when I was around 16 was Only Theatre of Pain by Christian Death. The whole thing sounded like a prayer to me, even though I was a very confused and angry atheist at the time. I always felt more than the lyrics sometimes let on, thanks to the tone of Rozz Williams' anguished vocals.
Rozz era CD will always have a soft spot on my heart.
I still consider PIG to be one of my largest art influences.

Oh God, I have been listening to this album for a week now, and tried to think of an angle from which to intoduce it. Should it be its relatedness to the fin de siecle Decadence, should it be about the blatant Catholic Satanism that is such a rare thing in gothig death rock, or should it be the awesome bass playing on the album, ot should I discuss the LA Hardcore punk influences (though one song is clearly a homgae to Sex Pistols inspired Brittish Punk, which I generally prefer)... There is so much that is good and unique on their album .

I was hoping to buy the book "The Art of Rozz Williams", but I just cant't buy a rock n' roll art book for 259 €,... can I... ?

I mean, I just paid more on John J. Huntington's (ed) "Circle of Bliss: Buddhist Meditational Art", and a 100€ on "Heroic Shāktism: The Cult of Durgā in Ancient Indian Kingship" by Bihani Sarkar. I don't regret them at all.

I would very much like to read your review of the album!

[obnoxion]

I had a dream last night: A famous Finnish murderer (a real person, who I think is still alive) from a black metal related incident back in the 90's, was dead. I was working as a grave digger, and I had to furnish his mausoleum. There
was a small black sideborad, on which was placed a green and gray urn. Then there was an orange chainsaw and a red jerry can full of petrol. The body was in a cardborad box with some pieces of tape on it. I didn't want to look at the corpse, because I knew it was badly decomposed, especially on the face and the torso. And I breathed through my mouth because of the stench. I hade a co-worker who urged me to view the body anyway. I put my hand on the side of the box, and it got stained with some puss and rotting meat. Then I woke up, and for 15 seconds I could still feel the rotting flesh on my fingers.

Others, too, here have said that they don't like to listen much BM because of the memories it brings. I think this dream came about, at least partly because I have lately listened to black metal too much.

[Insanus]

Like people reading about my random posts in different threads already know, my tastes and understanding in mustic are often weird and disturbing, and most likely be offensive to many who either make or listen to music in earnest. Yet I listen to music all the time (at the moment it's Tubular Bells & Sentinel by Mike Oldfield on repeat), and it would demand quite a yoga practice to just give up music as a rhythm of life and working. I take that it helps me a lot to be able just to use it without any kind of actual & active intellectual process. It made me think the blessed poor in spirit, and perhaps helped me to understand more about what is meant by that. When I listen to music, I do not listen to music – I mean, how it is played, &c. – but instead the overall feeling of the idea of it. The aura of music, how the idea in the music piece collects and channels my energy. I don't hear notes, I hear feelings. Often if someone makes a comment about an instrument used, I am at loss, because I didn't think about the instruments, I just felt the sound without any association to players, instruments, &c. I think this makes me as a little child in music. But the interesting thing is that I actually should not be a complete dullard in a musical sense. I went to music institute for children for quite a long time (nine years), so I learned the basics of playing, music theory, &c. My school grades in music were never below Excellent. I've always loved singing, and was asked to perform in public earlier. This made me think about choices one makes to focus.

I can relate. I learnt to listen to instruments because of a friend some ten years ago. He used to point at certain types of sounds, delays, sometimes random mistakes in recordings &c. that I never paid any attention to. Once I understood how this kind of technicalities were important for the overall feeling of a piece, I started noticing them everywhere and with that I "lost my innocence" with music. A lot of stuff I really enjoyed became impossible to listen to and I focused on the nuances I never noticed before. Similar thing happened with philosophy and especially occultism. Learning the language completely destroyed the original purity of feeling, the ability to listen to the whole that's more than the sum of it's parts. Unlearning that has been difficult, maybe now it's again possible at least to an extent. I have this romantic idea of theory lecturer whose innocence isn't dead, but just hidden - who prefers to talk of seemingly dry details out of respect for the whole, like a negative theologian. Anyway, this topic of focus, holistic, disintegrated, open, closed &c. and it's relation to actual experience is absolutely fascinating!

[Polyhymnia]

Oh God, I have been listening to this album for a week now, and tried to think of an angle from which to intoduce it. Should it be its relatedness to the fin de siecle Decadence, should it be about the blatant Catholic Satanism that is such a rare thing in gothig death rock, or should it be the awesome bass playing on the album, ot should I discuss the LA Hardcore punk influences (though one song is clearly a homgae to Sex Pistols inspired Brittish Punk, which I generally prefer)... There is so much that is good and unique on their album .

I was hoping to buy the book "The Art of Rozz Williams", but I just cant't buy a rock n' roll art book for 259 €,... can I... ?

I mean, I just paid more on John J. Huntington's (ed) "Circle of Bliss: Buddhist Meditational Art", and a 100€ on "Heroic Shāktism: The Cult of Durgā in Ancient Indian Kingship" by Bihani Sarkar. I don't regret them at all.

I would very much like to read your review of the album!

I've been thinking on this heavily the last couple of days, and I think I'll have a hard time eloquently giving my thoughts, but I'll do my best!

I think it's important to note that the first album by CD I acquired was Path of Sorrows, and I listened to this quite a bit more than I did Only Theatre of Pain, and truly didn't understand the occult connotations of either album at the time. Hearing Cavity for the first time literally sent shivers down my spine. The bells were reminiscent of Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells, which I was very much into at the time due to The Exorcist being my favourite movie (still top five!). The line "accept the gift of sin" stuck with me.

Christian Death was probably the darkest music I had experienced up unto that point in my life, and by then my musical tastes were mostly just The Cure, Depeche Mode and Bauhaus on heavy rotation. Hearing Rozz's wails and the ominous synth sounds, combined with lyrics like "their razor sharp tongues invite to relax as they slip the skin of your eyelids back" (Figurative Theatre) was exactly the combination of death and despair I had been waiting to hear. As if everything I had bottled inside of me was being channeled through everything I was hearing. It was scary, and unknown, and completely the opposite to what I grew up being taught. It was probably the first time I had the inkling that it was maybe okay to embrace the darker parts of me. And express them! Which I prove very valuable these days with the unifying work we do.

Now that I'm older I'm able to revisit both albums and see things I had missed in my younger years. I'm able to appreciate a track like Mysterium Iniquitatis for that blatant Catholic Satanism you spoke of, or Burnt Offerings for that Decadence.

I don't want to take this too terribly off topic with a hefty review and bore those following the thread who may not be acquainted with Christian Death, so if you'd like I can e-mail or private message you a full review! Or if I've written enough to satiate your curiosity with my bare bones, mostly focused on my emotional response review, that's cool, too! I know I'd be very much interested in reading yours.

Also, it's hard not buying everything. I daydream about the library I'd have if I won the lottery.

[obnoxion]

I don't want to take this too terribly off topic with a hefty review and bore those following the thread who may not be acquainted with Christian Death, so if you'd like I can e-mail or private message you a full review! Or if I've written enough to satiate your curiosity with my bare bones, mostly focused on my emotional response review, that's cool, too! I know I'd be very much interested in reading yours.

Thank you so much! I have found CD's OTOP late in life, and I am very impressed by it, though there are a lot of elements that I wasn't immediately comfortable with. This discomfort is due, I think, because much of it has been copied so much in gothic and other music. What I love in almost all gothic rock are the bass lines, and in OTOP these still feel powerful and original. And the other thing is the blatant satanism, which is quite original still. Despite CD being one of the the Ur-goth bands that it is, it's satanism is little copied.

I have taken a peak at Rozz Williams' art book, and he seems to be fascinated with nazi swastikas. And then we have the lyrics on "Romeo's distress"... There is plenty in his work to get upset about. But I just watched Body Count with Ice-T performing in Wacken 2019, and the bassist had Christian Death's "Only Theater of Pain" t-shirt on. (Considering the awesome bass playing on the album, not surprised that a bass player would wear the shirt...). With Ice-T sating during that show that the one thing they are against is racism, I think the spirit behind the use of poisonous words and images comes across. As does poisonous spirit behind sugared images and words. ...Although I doubt that Williams would get away with it in these days. We're a long way from the early 80's - sadly and thankfully!